Should DDOT remove Penn. Ave. pylons to aid plowing?

by David Alpert

Winter is getting closer and closer, which means sooner or later DC will likely see some snow. DDOT is pondering how to ensure they can plow the Pennsylvania Avenue bike lanes when snow does come.

Photo by afagen on Flickr.

DDOT uses large plows to clear Pennsylvania Avenue and other major roads quickly after a snowstorm. The large plow, however, can't fit in the Pennsylvania Avenue bike lanes, at least not as long as the white pylons remain near intersections.

DDOT added those pylons to make sure drivers realize they're not supposed to drive in the lanes when making turns. Occasionally, some do anyway, and police cars periodically park in them, but most of the time the pylons effectively guide drivers and protect cyclists at the corners, where there are more conflicting turning movements.

A smaller plow could come back later to clear the snow from the lanes, but depending on the size of a snowstorm, this would likely not happen until 24 to 48 hours later, meaning the lanes could remain impassable for up to 2 days while the regular roadway is clear.

The other option DDOT is considering is to remove the pylons for the winter. This would allow the plows to clear the lanes. On the other hand, it could mean drivers again getting confused and driving in the lanes, and cyclists feeling less safe at corners.

It doesn't snow very often, so if they do remove the pylons, the lanes would be a little bit worse every day in the winter, but keeping them means they'd be a lot worse for a few days. What's better: keeping them always passable to cyclists, or keeping them in their optimal condition at the cost of losing them temporarily when it snows?

The bicycle team would like your input. What do you prefer?

Cross-posted from GreaterGreaterWashington

Comments

[Early Man]

Keep the pylons! It is not a question of whether drivers know where they are supposed to be driving or not. If the pylons are not there, drivers who know very well they are not supposed to be encroaching on the bike lane will do so anyway in order to cut the corner. Driving past the pylon and turning the steering wheel more sharply is more difficult than just cutting the corner. Drivers will always follow the path of least resistance. I don't think the trade-off is a little worse all days vs. a lot worse a few days. It is more like inherently unsafe all days vs. knowing you won't be able to bike a few days. Framed that way, keeping the pylons wins hands down.

[Kathy]

I think they should keep the pylons in place. It's bad enough drivers are always making U-turns across the bike lanes. If there is that much snow, only the hard cord bikers will be out anyhow.

[nonfon]

Some green bike boxes -- http://www.fcgov.com/bicycling/pdf/bike_box.pdf -- to set off the intersections, if not the bike lanes in their entirety.

[Amber]

Nonfon - I rode a little bit in Eugene Oregon this summer (along with driving around with some nonbikers there), where they also have green boxes whenever the bike lane crosses a travel lane (like when a right hand turn lane shows up), and they didn't make it any better than a regular bike lane. It certainly wouldn't matter in the case of snow, and the issue with people clipping the bike box when turning.

[aaa]

The pylons are a godsend for the 350-360 days a year when there is not a snow issue in DC. For the days, when there a snow issue, I think it would be OK if they removed the pylons as long as they put them back within a reasonable amount of time. The problem, though, is that I have seen some pretty slow DDOT response times on when it comes to fixing downed and removed pylons, so I don't know if I would trust them to replace the pylons after the snow has been plowed.

[JeffB]

A smaller plow could come back later to clear the snow from the lanes, but depending on the size of a snowstorm, this would likely not happen until 24 to 48 hours later, meaning the lanes could remain impassable for up to 2 days while the regular roadway is clear.

Is that a commitment or a hope? Whenever there is significant accumulation DDOT is quick to remove the snow from the road by conveniently dumping it on the sidewalks. I fear the same result would happen to the bike lane if it were not reachable by their main plows.

[Michael H.]

Keep the pylons. We don't get that much snow (except a couple years ago with the record-setting storms). If there's enough snow that plowing would be required, there are going to be very few cyclists out there anyway.

[washcycle]

aaa, removing the pylons just for snow is not an option. It's either all winter or not at all.

JeffB, I took it as a commitment.

[aaa]

Oh, my bad for not reading the whole article. Leave the pylons up, then. How many times a winter, on average, is there really plowable snow in DC?

I do expect the plow drivers to bang the crap out of the pylons when the snow does come, though.

[Greenbelt]

I ride the PA Ave lanes daily and cuncur with others here: please keep the pylons. Just tell the plow drivers to plow the main lanes toward the curb -- don't dump extra snow in the bike lanes. The sun and salt will usually do enough to keep the bike lanes passable after a while anyway. Not worth removing the pylons and having (more) cars drive through the lanes for 95 percent of winter when there's no accumulated snow anyways.

[dayglo]

Where does the snow go?

If there is alot of it, it's going to go in those bike lanes whether there are pylons or not. It has to go somewhere, and the plows are not going to care about a bike lane.

[JDAntos]

Please keep the pylons, I think they're important to making the cycletracks work, and protecting me.

In my dream world, I'd love to see more pylons extended the length of the cycletracks, so cars stop u-turning across them.

Perhaps unrealistic, but ideally I'd rather not have to choose :).

[Jonathan Krall]

DDOT needs to look to the future by buying equipment that can be used to plow the bike lanes. Maryland Natl Capital Parks and Planning plows the Wilson Bridge trail when it snows. Boulder CO plows trails after it snows and does so quickly. DDOT needs to revise its "can't do" attitude.

Last winter, the fact that the Wilson Bridge trail was plowed consistently kept me on my bicycle and out of my car. Otherwise I'd probably still own that car.

[GMB]

I support leaving the pylons up all winter, if the only two options are what you described.

However, I would press DDOT as to why they couldn't remove and replace pylons for snow storms (assuming there's enough warning, and a firm commitment to put them back within a reasonable time).

[Froggie]

@Jonathan: to be fair, we only really had one snowfall last winter.

As for the pylons...the moment they're taken up, drivers will think they own that space again. Best to just leave them up, given the general lack of snow we get in this area to begin with.

[Inez]

Keep the pylons. If we get 17 inches of snow again, I probably won't be out on my bike anyway. The pylons do a fantastic job of keeping cars out of the bike lanes in a way nothing else in DC seems to.

[Roy]

Keep the pylons. Anyone biking out after a heavy snow can handle riding in a regular lane.

[Cap Hill Keith]

I agree with the masses keep the pylons. In fact I say more pylons. Just yesterday I saw a east bound driver take the cycle track for a whole block.

[darren]

of two crappy options, i'd say keep the pylons. And i'll pledge my cheapo snowblower for a "friends of the penn ave lanes" effort to do what the city probably won't

[Barry Childress]

What about keeping a salt box near the intersection? And when needed just salt down the area?