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Hip-hip-hooray. If I survive until 2019 and still have a job, I will be most pleased to use these improvements.

Construction impacts, however, could prove interesting.

It would also be nice to halt all traffic turning right onto Key Bridge (Lynn St) from the exit ramp from I-66. "No turn on red," please, in addition to the current "Yield to Pedestrians & Cyclists." (It was nice, by the way, to include Cyclists in that sign--that was added soon after I was struck on my bike in the crosswalk by a car making that right turn onto the bridge. He admitted that he saw me and thought he could make it. He was ticketed but not fined or punished in any way.)

^ Hah! No turn on red means "Maybe I should slow down a bit or maybe do a rolling stop at this light before turning right."

Kolo, right, but if there were no turn on red and someone went anyway, there would be no doubt about who was at fault. Well, in theory.

Also, I'd like to make my obligatory post I make everywhere that there be no turn on red anywhere there is reasonable pedestrian traffic. So that's all cities and most close-in suburbs, at least.

that there *should* be.

Several years behind schedule already.
The planning was already ongoing in 2011 when I wrote my GGW blog post proposing an ideal solution to the conflicts there:
https://ggwash.org/view/10930/redesign-could-improve-dangerous-rosslyn-intersection
(Hint: it's not a tunnel; it's better than a tunnel)

The problem with no turn on red for the cars is that the cyclists don't obey the walk signal. When that sucker is blinking orange it means don't enter the intersection. This rule is violated with abandon at that intersection. Because of this the right turning cars don't have much of a chance to turn right on green.

A solution could be to separate the traffic signal from the pedestrian signal, but that would mean longer cycle times overall and less overall throughout - particularly for the overloaded car lanes.

Scott, part of that is the timing of the ped signals. Having the white walk signal for only 20% (or so) of the blinking orange really forces the issue for peds and cyclists to cross on the blink. DC does it differently, favoring the white walk signal duration. Some harmony between the two jurisdictions would help train the peds and cyclists.

dbb, that's fair, but it doesn't address the right turn issue. Say the white is longer for the crosswalk, the only way this would alleviate the right turning car issue is if there was a disproportionate drop in the number of bikes crossing during the flashing orange. That's not going to happen. I see bikes cross with 1 second on the countdown timer every single day (during nice weather). It's such that only 4-5 cars can turn right per green cycle.

My premise is that it isn't appropriate to advocate for no right on red at that intersection when right on green is very difficult. Without other changes to make turning right on green easier, saying no right on red is effectively saying no right turn.

That's a stressful intersection for everyone - much more so for cars than bikes. The worst case for a bike is that they wait 1 light cycle. Best case for cars is that they wait several.

Cyclists could do a lot to ease the pain by giving a little when crossing Lynn.
Further, I would bet that almost every car/bike accident at that intersection involves a bike entering the intersection on flashing orange. Statistically this is almost certain as most bikes are entering on flashing orange.

The worst case for a bike is that they wait 1 light cycle

I'd say the worst case for a cyclist is that they never make it to the other side but instead wind up in the morgue or a hospital.

"I see bikes cross with 1 second on the countdown timer every single day (during nice weather). "

I am guessing in part because they take with them their habits formed as drivers, where the standard practice is to drive through a yellow light that is about to turn red.

Washcycle - poor form particularly for the admin (or someone using your name). Please consider context.

I'll rephrase: The worst case for the cyclist (barring nuclear war, asteroid strike, car collision, heart attack, random mugging, and other tragedies that could occur, but usually don't while crossing the road legally) is that they will have to wait 1 light cycle.

I don't see how it's poor form. The argument against right turn on red is one of safety. You write that the intersection is more stressful for drivers than trail users, but I beg to differ. It may be more frustrating, since finding an opportunity to turn is difficult, but it's not more stressful.

Perhaps a better solution than right turn on red is a green right turn arrow cycle.

We can make this intersection safer, all we need to do is accept that people might not get through it as fast.

As the designated strict-compliance-with-laws weenie, I consider the rule that prohibits entry into the crosswalk during the orange flashing light utterly stupid, and hereby grant indulgence to all cyclists to flout it.

The worst case for the cyclist (barring nuclear war, asteroid strike, car collision, heart attack, random mugging, and other tragedies that could occur, but usually don't while crossing the road legally)

One of the items on your list is different from the others, in that it is directly related to crossing safety, to right on red, and to the reason this is called the intersection of doom. And yes, car collisions do happen to cyclists who cross roads legally. Rather more often than nuclear wars or asteroid strikes. And I suspect, more often than cyclists suffer random muggings or heart attacks while crossing roads legally.

Washcycle - stressful and frustrating are synonyms[1]. I do grant that it is the last one listed. Sorry for the sub-optimal word choice, but we're not creating literature here. Also, please consider context.

1- https://encrypted.google.com/search?{google:acceptedSuggestion}oq=stressful+synonym&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=stressful+synonym

I totally agree that this is a dangerous intersection - particularly for cyclists. Unfortunately, based on the general behavior, cyclists don't treat it as a dangerous intersection. I get flouting the law. Everyone does it. But flouting the law in what is proclaimed to be the "intersection of doom" is irrational. Particularly given that it is a dangerous intersection, we need to consider all users and the repercussions of changes. I'm sure some really smart folks worked on the light pattern. They are undoubtedly much better informed as to the second and third order impacts of changes. My point in the previous comments was to highlight that the current cyclist behavior makes no turn on red without other changes a poor solution.

But back to the original topic - a right turn arrow seems like a good suggestion. It would necessitate a don't walk signal though. Regardless it would either lengthen the time between bike crossings or shorten the (legal) duration.

I'm not sure when I would replace the word "stressful" with "frustrating" without changing the meaning of the sentence, but certainly in this context, I do not see them as meaning the same thing.

I dunno, Crickey--I'll do Idaho stops all day when there's no one whose right-of-way I'd take (since it's a completely harmless action), but I'll never go through this intersection when the countdown has started. I go through every day and it's just not worth it given the number of close calls I've had even while strictly obeying the law.

However, I'm in the minority. I've had folks blow past me or almost run up into the back of me when I've stopped during the countdown. I really don't think most people know that you're not supposed to enter the intersection once the countdown starts. Either this rule should be publicized better or we need a whole new way to designate times for intersection crossings.

"I really don't think most people know that you're not supposed to enter the intersection once the countdown starts."

I suspect that is one of the rules that if it were enforced, or even publicized, would soon be changed.

"I'm sure some really smart folks worked on the light pattern."

I never take for granted that just because some smart traffic engineers have decided on something, that it is the optimal solution, even under constraints.

Good changes. But until they either (a) separate the right-turn driver phase from the ped-bike phase, or (b) only allow rights from a single right-only lane, there will still be problems.

And if they could find an extra foot or two in the cross-section to add to the east-side of Lynn bikelane to put in some separation from traffic.

The smart folks had the day off when they changed the light pattern that added the no turn on red signal - a sign that is not very visible, even less so in the afternoon sun, and not at all intuitive. (so, you can make a right at all times *except* a brief moment when this no turn on red sign way over your head where you're generally no looking comes on? Great idea, traffic einsteins)

"I really don't think most people know that you're not supposed to enter the intersection once the countdown starts."

This is news to me --a Va.-specific law? E.g., at all? cases in D.C., countdown begins with the ROW (and at obvious totals adequate for crossing --e.g., 45 sec.s).
.:. I take the indicated time-remaining as advisory, sometimes to hurry (w/care, of course).

DanL,
Not specific to VA. I just did a google search and every entry stated the same thing. Pedestrians are not allowed to enter the crosswalk when the do not walk signal is flashing. If the pedestrian entered on the walk signal and the signal starts to flash then they are to continue to cross.

Note that when using the crosswalk cyclists are required to behave as pedestrians.

That's what the law says anyway. Does everyone do that all the time - no, probably no one does. However, as DE states above, at that particular intersection, cyclists would benefit from a stricter than normal compliance with the law.

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